Ray Foley grapples with violence in Irish society

Ray Foley

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Ray Foley grapples with violence in Irish society

13/01/2011 1:55 pm

When Ray Foley saw the results of JOE.ie's poll on hitting women the results immediately shocked him, then he and his team looked into the subject in more detail...


This week’s JOE.ie survey results make for some interesting reading. According to a poll of Irish men (that’s you and me, lads) on this here website, almost half of men admit that they would hit a woman. The press release landed into the inbox of my phone while the four of us from the radio show - two boys and two girls - were having our Wednesday morning meeting. Flabbergasted, I read the stats to the team.

Seven per cent of the male respondents admitted that if a woman made them angry, they’d react with physical violence. Nearly eight per cent said if a woman hit them first, they’d hit back - and 31 per cent of guys said they would hit a woman in self-defence. It’s a small comfort that a majority - 54 per cent - said they’d never hit a woman under any circumstances. The reaction in our meeting was mixed.

My immediate feeling was shock: how the hell could this be the case? I’ve been brought up to believe there’s absolutely no excuse whatsoever for hitting a woman. Since I was a kid, I remember my dad always reminding me of the golden rule: never raise your hand to a woman.

I suppose I’m pretty lucky that there’s never been a woman in my life that I’ve especially wanted to slap, so sticking to that rule hasn’t exactly been a hardship. But the lesson has been learned, and the idea of it is like a foreign language to me.

JP - who, for the record is a man - was as shocked as I was at first. But then he started putting forward hypothetical situations that would require action and reaction. Say, for instance a man was standing next to you at a bank machine, he has a knife, and as you turn from the machine, cash-in-hand, he makes a grab for the wallet. Would you push or punch him? Now, in the same circumstances, change the guy to a girl. Would you push or punch her?

Slapping

Adelle - who, we’re led to believe is a woman - told us the story of a male pal of hers who was assaulted by a woman on a night out. She was a complete stranger, pissed and he was a well-built dude. She had decided that he had taken her seat, and began slapping and thumping his face.

He called to the bouncers nearby who laughed. As she continued to wallop him, he reached for a glass of water... and emptied it on her head. Needless to say, she stopped. And the bouncers chucked him out.

The more hypothetical and genuine situations we discussed, the more apparent a loophole became to allow oneself to say that yes, we would hit a woman in certain circumstances. But why the shock? If this was a women’s website and they had conducted a similar survey, would we be bothered to read that 46 per cent of women would be prepared to hit a man?

And then why is it so acceptable to see women hitting each other? Have you noticed the way in movies, as the male hero of the flick is beating seven shades of shite out of the male villain, his love interest is invariably trouncing the living daylights out of the female villain of the piece.

It would probably make for some pretty dull action films if nobody ever hit anyone - but really that’s probably what we should aspire to.

Perhaps this is a plot safety net, so that the hero of the piece isn’t required to hit a woman. Or perhaps it’s to satisfy a curious hunger among the audience to see women hitting one-another.

It would probably make for some pretty dull action films if nobody ever hit anyone - but really that’s probably what we should aspire to.

Man hitting woman, woman hitting man: we shouldn’t need to resort to our fists or our feet to do the talking for us. Whether you’re a man or woman, it’s a stupid, cowardly way to settle any dispute, a pathetic expression of one’s inability to control their emotions and express themselves with intelligence.

One organization dealing with this issue every day is Women’s Aid. A few clicks around their website shows how startlingly busy they are: with funding and volunteer drives, awareness campaigns and appeals for appropriate legislation to protect victims of abuse - but every time a new report is published into violence toward women, the problem seems to be escalating.

Women’s Aid’s website is womensaid.ie - and like any charitable organisation in these tightened financial circumstances, they need all the help we can offer.

your comments
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    Ajdeman
    13/01/2011 5:31 pm #
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    The survey was and is a bad gender bashing joke. Do a survey on how many aid groups there are for men in this country and then do the same for women. Then compare the funding both public and private that they get. 46% of the men taking part in the survey are idiots is what this proved nothing else.
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    PlasticPaddy
    13/01/2011 6:19 pm #
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    Fair play to you Ray. Honest and well written.You're getting good at this column writing lark.
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    Fianian2000
    13/01/2011 6:21 pm #
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    You want them to ask their readers how many aid groups there are for women versus men? That would be a fairly shite poll in fairness.

    I voted in that poll and I would fall into that 46 per cent - I said I would hit a woman in self defence. I think that's fair enough and it doesn't make me a woman basher. As I said on the other story about this if a 15 stone heroin addict with a knife cornered you at an atm, you're obviously going to give her a smack if that's your only way of not getting stabbed and robbed.
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    mcfucknuts
    13/01/2011 7:25 pm #
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    here is my story of having to lay hands on a woman ( and not in a nice way ) .
    paddys day about ten years ago outside goodtime charlies in howth , i was waiting for a taxi with four friends 3 male and one female . a taxi pulled up with a woman in the passenger seat , my female friend opened the door to ask if the woman was getting out , the woman tried to close the door on her head . after the woman got out of the taxi she rounded on the group of us with shouts of im going to kill yis and "do you know who i am" . each of us tried to came her down in turns with no avail , she was still pouring it on about who she was and who her family where ( nobody's) . it was my turn to try and calm her down and i was doing what i tought was a good job , calm , rational and placating . it wasnt working . just before i went to walk away she tried to headbut me . i was in the army at the time and had just finished my unarmed training so it was fresh in my mind so while her head was on its way to my nose i grabbed her trout by the ausphogus and gently squeezed , just enough to stop her . she ran to the gaurds and tried unsucsesfully to get me done for assault .

    Was i wrong ? would i do it again ?
    probably , yes . i have said it before if someone is willing to hit me im willing to hit them back no matter what sex ,colour or creed
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    Fianian2000
    13/01/2011 7:42 pm #
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    Whatever about violence against women Mcfucknuts, but violence about fish is beyond the pale. How dare you man-handle a trout like that!
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    mcfucknuts
    13/01/2011 7:49 pm #
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    just goes to show violence is done by the uneducated :)
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    Ajdeman
    13/01/2011 8:54 pm #
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    Ohh I`m sorry I should have launched on a personal crusade against an educated man like Mr. Foley examining the subject matter of this poll in more detail. He is in the media game and should know better. It is because people like Mr. Foley do not raise a question over something like this that we have the current situation in the courts of Ireland. Hidden away in the article is an account of a woman beating up a man. Violence is carried out in equal measure by both sexes. Men are less likely to get hurt because they are normally physically bigger. Try reporting a woman to the Gardai for violence when they are smaller than you and you can guess the reaction. Similarly if you stand accused of violence as a man in front of a Garda or a court there is an assumption of guilt on the man`s part. Then finally we reach the end of this article where one single group is mentioned for women only, if Mr. Foley was the truly "honest and well written person" as plasticpaddy says then perhaps he could have acknowledged some of this in this article and included amen.ie which is an organisation for male victim`s of domestic abuse although not I would venture as high profile as womenaid.ie. What about a poll on violence and then look at the age group of respondents. Less prejudiced in my view than whats taken place here. In a few years men could well segregate themselves from women for protection. Look at the current situation with men and children. Offer affection to a child in any format who is not related to you and what is the reaction you will get??............... Not all men are paedophiles and likewise not all men are violent ,to anybody not just women but the perceptions are there all the same.
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    mcfucknuts
    13/01/2011 9:07 pm #
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    ajdman , if your last comment was a reply to my last comment , then i think you should look at the comments before , i misspelled throat and said trout instead , this being the uneducated part
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    Ajdeman
    13/01/2011 9:53 pm #
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    @mcfucknuts. I disagree with the poll and this article, as it asked a question and then tries to put it into some other form of context. It says at the end of the article that "the problem seems to be escalating". I believe domestic violence is being used as an excuse to get a man out of his home and it is clear it is not reported by men and if it is those men are ridiculed. I do not believe domestic violence does not occur but organisations need funding and you don`t get that by being friendly to the enemy which in this case happens to be us (men)
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    AndyNewbridge
    14/01/2011 5:08 pm #
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    If she can throw one she should be prepared to take one. Simple as.
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    Fianian2000
    14/01/2011 6:00 pm #
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    I know what you're saying AndyNewbridge but jesus, if 50 kg girl gives you a slap in a nightclub you can't really just respond by smacking her a punch in the face, can you? I think you have to be very, very worried that you're going to get hurt before you can respond violently because once you do, there's a very good chance that you're going to seriously hurt the girl.
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    AndyNewbridge
    14/01/2011 6:08 pm #
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    Thats true but you get where I'm coming from I obviously wouldn't hit her back in every case or anything like that but if it didn't stop you can't stay it wasn't warranted
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    Lucy Brown
    15/01/2011 9:36 pm #
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    Thanks for covering this story !! DV is SUCH a hidden issue yet it's massively prevalent:
    Domestic violence accounts for between 16% and one quarter of all recorded violent crime.
    It appears that (as a nation) we're still too quick to turn a blind eye and consider it a "domestic" and not to get involved.

    The Home Office in 2009 (yes, possibly generally yawn-inducing.. but none-the-less important and investing in education and prevention) did a poll and also noted that:
    16% (almost 1 in 6) of respondents believed it was acceptable for a man to hit a woman if she was nagging or constantly moaning and almost 1 in 5 (18%) would be unlikely to take action if a neighbour was a victim of domestic violence.... Seriously, What the ??!!??
    There's a great ad. in Australia which shows this which I just love.

    Annyhoo, Women's AId in England (who is the sister federation of Women's Aid.ie) launched the Real Man campaign last year which is all about celebrating men (and women) who stand up against domestic violence - would be GREAT if you could raise its profile as they simply want to show that a Real Man (or woman) doesn't need to use his strengths to weaken a partner and will stand up against those that do. It's great - and it's here - www.realmancampaign.com. They're aiming at getting 100,000 pledges of support by the end of November - can you help them get there??!!
    Thanks again !!
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    Lucy Brown
    15/01/2011 10:47 pm #
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    Whoop - forgot to paste the link to the Ozzie Ad.
    Here t'is
    http://creativity-online.com/work/unifem-lend-a-hand/7951
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    Ajdeman
    16/01/2011 12:56 am #
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    Ms Brown has taken the view that this article about a poll is a reference to Domestic Violence alone and it show`s the perception that it is men only who perpetrate these actions.
    Once the home office introduce the law that a man can be removed from his home without any proof of DV,(They are attemting this presently) Ireland will adopt the same law. It doesn`t take a great leap to see where this leads. The problem`s already exacerbated by prejudice will become worse with bad legislation.
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    Lucy Brown
    16/01/2011 6:56 am #
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    Hi Adjeman, completely agree on the point that men also experience domestic violence - absolutely men experience it too - but all research shows that it is experienced more by women, at more escalated levels and that women and men's needs are different.
    You may be pleased to hear that Men's services are growing across England - simply though, there needs to be more research on what men need and want...
    About Home Office "Go Orders" - they really aren't about throwing a man out of him home with no evidence, they were being considered so that where police were concerned about violent behaviour within a household and there's not enough evidence for a criminal conviction - and this is VERY hard to get - ask any Policeperson who responds to calls relating to domestic violence. Go Orders are deisgned to provide breathing space - it can just be 48 hours and could save lives and certainly visits to A&E and increased trauma for children - many, many groups supported them, including the NSPCC and men's support groups such as Men's Advice Line. Also, interesting to note that consideration was that the person removed would be given temporary accommodation (instead of generally the women and children (who have to move school, away from family and friends and have their lives turned upside down as a result)
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    kildareliam
    16/01/2011 8:28 am #
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    There's an organisation out there that supports Irish men who are victims of domestic abuse that 's accessible at www.amen.ie

    It's good to see that this is being discussed on a men's website for two reasons. 1. Regardless of whether some women physically hit men, which they clearly do or amen.ie wouldn't have to exist, it's important to highlight to men the issue of men hitting women. 2. That this is being discussed openly on an Irish men's site goes to prove that not all Irishmen are Neanderthals.
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    Mr Plato
    17/01/2011 8:36 am #
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    point of order Ceann Comhairle, anytime i've witnessed violence towards a woman it was somebody, male or female, who hadn't been left any other alternative. obviously not counting post-niteclub streets of ireland circus acts, genuine incidents of violence in a house where a female, acting in such a unpredictable semi-psychotic way that she puts herself and others in danger, the acts of the other were that of self-defense and restraint, but generally it's a very subjective topic and there's no sense in adopting an elitist self-righteous attitude arguing it's a symptom of the proletariat, nor is there any point in half-arsed displays of schoolboy heroics in the responses to this conversation. i've only ever witnessed one act of wanton domestic violence of a man against a woman, and it occured after a tirade of verbal and phsysical abuse, and after all patience had been exhausted and after a total breakdown in communication, initially he tried pushing her away, then pinning her, but she got more and more aggresive and was throwing chairs, glasses and thumps, he flipped and gave her a quick one-two in tits and this sent her flying, he instantly chilled a bit but she turned demonic and he in fairness disarmed her by laughing at her and breaking aggs in her hair and pouring blackcurrents squash all over her. they made up afterwards, they are mates before and after, but it was a 'full moon' and 'they were drunk' are not applicable excuses here or anywhere, in this case study, these two 'mates' knew each other intimately and lived together and this occured in her boyfriends flat. i say its subjective matter because actual cases of domestic violence are resulting from ongoing underlying issues, with him/her/them as a unit.
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